Nice to see u all there today.

Sorry for Ultramind (for not being able to join us), hope ur back is feeling better now.

Not the normal trip report but here it goes:

YYZ wonderful having u over and excellent driving skills (haven't noticed any shaky confidence today )

Always great to have u over Morpheus. Appreciate your always support to the dubai branch )

Nucleur no true trip is complete without you and ur sense of humor buddy. (and of course ur ARB )

Pleasure to meet u G-man, and really hope to see u more often.

Now comes my true concern 8O :

1. How was one of our truly beloved members "JAX" (or any member) be left alone in the middle of the street with a broken car and a little kid? . Thanks Mans for ur assistance and ur spirit was always on the dunes with us!!!

2. Where has the rule of everyone sticking to the convoy and if u don't see the car behind u just STOP!!!and why was'nt it stressed upon?

3. And if there was an agreed timing for leaving home, why was'nt it respected, knowing that i was the only one from Sharjah having to ensure that both newbies from Abu Dhabi are back safely.

4. Respect is given to any member of the club regardless of their level of experience.

Too bad this happened in an AD4x4 trip , but am really happy that its an out of the usual instance cause that's not the true concept of AD4x4 (One for all and all for one)

Sorry for that one Jax and we promise to make it up to u and lovely Rashid

1. How was one of our truly beloved members "JAX" (or any member) be left alone in the middle of the street with a broken car and a little kid? . Thanks Mans for ur assistance and ur spirit was always on the dunes with us!!!

2. Where has the rule of everyone sticking to the convoy and if u don't see the car behind u just STOP!!!and why was'nt it stressed upon?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COMMENT :iagree: and we need :feedbackpls:

Aidy wrote: 1. How was one of our truly beloved members "JAX" (or any member) be left alone in the middle of the street with a broken car and a little kid? . Thanks Mans for ur assistance and ur spirit was always on the dunes with us!!!

Really surprised. We don't leave anyone behind even if we have to cancel the trip & beleive me this has happened before. That's AD4x4 spirit & that's the way it should be .

Sorry JAX & thanks mans for your support 8) much appreciated bro 8)

Thank God everything went fine after all. I have nothing more to add

Hi guys,

I just want to say firstly, that I am aware of this thread - and whilst I find the strengnth and nature of your concerns surprising, I am, as always, more than happy to discuss them. Aidy, can you please PM me what incidents you are referring to in your concerns other than that regarding Jax? This would be most constructive so that I can understand your perspective.

If anyone else who was on the trip has any concerns at all then please post them & then to clarify everything as simply as possible, I will address anything raised in a single response to cover everything.

Thank you for your input,

Caro

Sorry to hear that Jax, and hope your TANK is fixed in no time....

Ladies and gents, the main reason behind the trip report is NOT to keep on thanking eachother and buttering business. We do learn from our mistakes and share our experience to avoid repetition of mistakes.

We do encourage everyone who has any concern to open up and discuss it in a constructive manner. The nature of this hobby/sport is risky and expensive hence incidents are normally expected. The AD4x4 spirit is what made our club unique attracting you all and keeping the club rank to what it is today. I repeat that incidents happen and we do learn from our mistakes.....

Enough bla bla bla,,,, so now on behalf of the club management I need to hear the story from all parties with the actual concern, am also ready to meetup with you guys to discuss it in details and clear any possible misunderstanding or mistake if any.

1- Well said Aidy .. Couldn't agree more ..

2- Thanx alot Jiff for your lesson about pop out treating.. it was a nice technical pop out stuck 8)

3- Mans .. GOD BLESS YOU..

4- Khaiwi .. Your Concern is highly apprichiated .. I trust that you will do what ever nesessary to ensure that this Shall not happen again

P.S Aidy .. I love my ARB

I have just arrived home after my weekend fix of the desert and must say that I have been caught off guard by some of the comments that have been made above. From my perspective this was beautiful day out - I saw a fabulous sunrise over the mountains of Oman and our Newbies had the opportunity to build their skills in what I can only describe as an amazing piece of the fabulous UAE desert.

That said, to make sure that something positive comes out of all of this I would like to clarify a few points
1) To all trip leaders - current and future - it is the responsibility of the Trip leader to ensure that any member who is unable to continue with a trip is suitably accompanied until they 'make it back to civilisation', regardless of the perceived level of severity of the situation. If this means that the trip must be cancelled then so be it.

2) To ensure the safety of the convoy, every driver is responsible for the car behind them. If the car behind stops, then the driver in front must stop - this creates a domino effect through to the trip leader at the front of the convoy which then results in the convoy stopping until the situation is rectified. That said - any driver can request that the trip leader slow down or stop via their radio. This frequently happens on trips with great success - and in fact happened today on at least two occasions. This point must be covered off in the drivers brief at the start of the trip (particularly when newbies are involved) and each driver must remember this point - as difficult as it is whilst caught up in enjoying the sand in front of them rather than what is happening behind them

3) Communication of expectations is a key requirement of any trip - and communication issues invariable arise when two or more trips merge into one. If we look specifically at today, there was no expectation from the trip members on Kiwaussiechick's trip regarding an exit time.....however it appears that there was an expectation from the members of Aidy's trip. I for one was unaware of this conflict of expectations and at the time it seemed to me that appropriate and safe arrangements were agreed to by all for Aidy's and his original trip members to leave and return home whilst Kiwaussiechicks original trip members continued to play......yet this has shown up as an issue - please if your expectations are not being met, be fair and speak up at the time!


4) Respect for each other is a basic requirement of life - not limited to the club. Respect for all trip members who are out to enjoy their day and improve their skills, and conversly respect for the senior members of the club who have the responsibility of providing the environment for this to occur. This learning through the sharing of skills is the cornerstone of AD4x4 and must be a two way street. If a trip member requests help, the senior member involved must provide clear and constructive input and feedback that is never personal. In return all trip members must listen to the advice and direction given. There were instances today where direct instruction were given and they were ignored, on one occasion with consequences of unneccessary lost time and effort...thank goodness this was the only consequence this time around!

We are a great family club that is constantly growing, learning and improving. Key to this is mutual respect and the requirement for clear and timely communication from all so that issues can be addressed and dealt with as they occur, rather than retrospectivley when nothing can be done.

I would like to thank all of the trip members today and hope that we can all take away positive lessons from our experiences - and get on with doing what we love best - enjoying the beautiful UAE outdoors 8)

lucknow wrote: 3) Communication of expectations is a key requirement of any trip - and communication issues invariable arise when two or more trips merge into one. If we look specifically at today, there was no expectation from the trip members on Kiwaussiechick's trip regarding an exit time.....however it appears that there was an expectation from the members of Aidy's trip. I for one was unaware of this conflict of expectations and at the time it seemed to me that appropriate and safe arrangements were agreed to by all for Aidy's and his original trip members to leave and return home whilst Kiwaussiechicks original trip members continued to play......yet this has shown up as an issue - please if your expectations are not being met, be fair and speak up at the time!

Unfortunately Lucknow you were not there at the time, but during a stop around 9 am with the trip leader and the other newbies and the one intermediate, and it was decided upon the request of the trip members to continue till about 9.45 am and head out to ensure inflation around 10. That was why i clearly mentioned over radio that its already 9.45 and was time to go.

Its quite true that all we venture for is pure offroad fun, but thanks to the rather strict rules that the club adopts, we reach maximum fun satisfaction using the highest possible safety measures.

Truly I’m quit disappointed with what I’m reading and what I heard over the phone throughout the day. I never expected to see so much negative feedback from one trip at a time. Yet again that’s the whole point of having a trip report. I got a number of calls today from a number of unhappy members on the same trip complaining about several incidents. This is a first. I kindly request everyone who was evolved in today’s trip to speak their opinion out truthfully and honestly without sugarcoating. We are a family and I’m sure we can work this out and learn from our mistakes.

I would like to thank Mans, Aidy, Jax , Lucknow and Kiwaussiechick for the phone calls and explanation of their point of view and their side of the "story". Very well said Jeoff, all your 4 points are clearly addressed and nobody would disagree with any of them. All the points were noted and following are my comments.

• Merging trips should never be done as a last minute arrangement.
  Once two trips are coordinated and properly merged, a single trip leader should be appointed to handle the situation and be the person in charge.
  The convoy should not move from the meeting point leaving late members doing their shopping etc, unless properly conveyed and the late members acknowledge and confirm they can catch up to meet at the next point.
  It is the responsibility of the trip leader/planner to ensure that any member who had a mechanical problem or a hiccup (on road or off-road) that he/she is well taken care of and not left alone. That is regardless to the member seniority level in the club.
  Communication and understanding is a major issue and requires great effort from everybody to be as much considerate as possible, keeping in mind that almost every member on any given trip is coming from a different cultural background with certain values, additionally English language would be their second language (please excuse my English hehehehe)
  Trip briefing at the beginning of the trips needs to be considered more seriously by EVERYBODY starting from the trip leader.
  A very very special attention to be given to newbie trips considering the null or very limited exposure of some members to off-road driving and involved etiquette.
  Newbie trips are meant for beginners to enjoy where higher level members are supposed to serve, help and guide.
  Showoff in newbie trips is a big NO NO as it emphasises and encourages less experienced members to take the risk and do things beyond their skill levels resulting in disastrous situations.

What I have mentioned above is not necessarily completely from this trip but rather a compilation of constructive comments from members on various trips.

I would like to remind all of our AD4x4 family members that things do happen and we all need to learn from our mistakes. I hope nobody takes things to the personal.

Regards

Well, whilst it seems there is considerable post-trip discussion of issues that weren't raised directly with me during this trip, I will take this to be a healthy sign, that even if people feel they cannot approach me, they can still voice any concerns they might have - and be heard.

I would like to say that I would have considered myself to be at all times very approachable and would like to think that those who know me would agree - so please do not hesitate to let me know directly of any issues that arise - open communications especially in a group such as ours are essential for smooth operations. Nobody enjoys finding out about things indirectly and it can often erode enormous goodwill between the parties concerned and for the efforts and contributions made towards everyone enjoying their time on the sand, safely and in a nurturing learning environment.

There are a number of factors that - combined - led to this being an 'involved' trip. It was in fact a situation of two trips being run with last minute changes but without clear delineation of responsibilities/accountabilities - or a clear understanding by all as to the different goals and expectations - but I was more than happy to lead for everyone when unexpected circumstances prevailed. I was also happy to still try and accommodate the requests of some of the senior members, who had contributed so much assistance, for some additional trip time at the end after having focused on building the confidence and experience of newer members to the club for the morning. I proactively provided safety information, group guidelines and a route tailored to develop the specific profiles of the drivers on the trip with great diligence. I mention this only to assure others NOT on the trip that any picture they might have as to any absences of 'consideration' would certainly not be a full and fair one. Whilst there were definitely aspects of this trip that did not run perfectly - there were also plenty that did - something not uncommon.

In any case, I am happy to bear full responsibility for my role in the day and the consequences of any decisions taken - regardless of the background - as I ended up leading the trip(s). Most particularly - I apologise for assessing the situation of Jax being fine to wait for the AXA recovery inappropriately.

However, I am not someone who gets involved in anything that is not constructive. Whilst I don't believe that all of the posts on this thread have been as helpful as they could have, I do appreciate those suggestions raised here that relate to the way in which AD4x4 not only wants - but needs - to operate and fully endorse everyone taking a look at their part to play in the process at all levels and at all times.

I trust that everyone is able to reflect as much as I know I (and some others) have on this process & have no doubts that any operational discussions contribute to the growth and longevity of the Club as a whole.

Thanks again,
Caro

Not being on the trip I cannot comment on the days events, I fully agree with Chief khaiwi, a trip report is not just to pat everyone on the back, but is also to learn from, good or bad.
Unfortunately we who were not on the trip are obviously not seeing the full picture, Antrax has asked people to give their views but they are not here. This is not about fingerpointing or upsetting people, it is about honesty.
If this doesn,t happen things will just fester.
Why don,t we delete this post, and all of those who were on the trip meet VERY quickly for a coffee or whatever with Antrax & Chief Khaiwi, and THEN post constructive Do,s & Dont,s. for the benefit of all.
My own opinion for what it is worth.

I totally agre with Mac,

This tread should be deleted.

Lets look for solutions and stop the finger pointing, we are a social group not a milatry dicatorship

Well said Mac & Avan.... delete please... a social gathering is the way to go. What ever gaps there are, they need to be bridged ASAP.

Now kiss and make up... come on... there you go... that wasn't hard, was it?

What is this???????

Even though I was not there I feel I can comment because the same situation happened to my wife.

What I have read may be valid but Mistakes are made, things break, enough of this rubbish POLITICS

Antrax get rid of this thread PLEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEEE this is a club full of individuals who have 1 thing in common enjoying the sand of the UAE.