Hi all, I was looking at the photos of the recent recovery point failure which caused the shackle to puncture through the tail gate of a members vehicle. This incident made my legs wobble, thank god nobody was injured.

An idea came to me from the industry I work in (aviation) where we have a occurrence reporting system.
Wanted to put out a suggestion to the club management to consider adding a safety reporting section where any safety related incidents can be logged. The aim would NOT be to apportion blame or point fingers but a open forum to promote safety and share lessons learnt from the incident. Sometimes these things just happen through no fault, but there is always a root cause which should be identified.

Our experienced Marshals constantly warn us of the dangers - no flying at the top of crest, don't fight gravity, stay clear of recovery areas etc etc these are extremely important points. However, it would really emphasis the importance of these points if new (and existing) members had reference to real life occurrences. The reports could be documented to explain what happened, decisions which may have contributed to the incident, and most importantly lessons learnt and recommendations to minimize future occurrence. If needed the reports could be made anonymous by way of not mentioning specific members involved in the event.
Our club prides itself on safety being number 1 priority so surely we need to have a section specifically to learn from and promote safe practices.
Thoughts??

I think that this will be surely addressed by one of our marshals, however from what i know there is an internal reporting system to the marshals, in place when something does occur on a trip.

batfink,

thnks for your suggestion, but this is actually in place for years and MArshals / explorers / experts have the duty to report any near miss or incident, which is then discussed in the proper forums...

on the other hands, we do not share the reports for the lower grade, as there are private information that should not be displayed. But do not hesitate to discuss with your marshals, they are always ready to talk about this.

as you said, no blame, or finger pointing, just to share, learn and also teach the youngest leaders.

thanks.

I second that. Excellent idea! a report to include any photos or videos would be great.


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Thanks Xof, I wasn't aware that there was already a process in place amongst the senior grades.
This is good news, however I still believe that making all members aware of such REAL incidents would be of benefit, and the mechanism for communicating such incidents should be via a forum safety report.
The report can omit any personal / specific details such as member name, location, car make etc etc.
Thankfully I personally have not experienced any serious safety incidents, but I will be the first to admit that perhaps in the past I have under estimated the danger and significance of say a recovery point failing or snatch strap failure etc as I have never seen this happen. However after seeing the photos I am all too aware of the consequences, forces involved and the issue is well a truly ingrained in my mind for future reference.
Mistakes and incidents do happen and unfortunately will happen, but we are all losers if we don't collectively share and learn from them - Its all about awareness and learning from it.

Batfink, sounds like a great idea. Though incidences are shared with marshals, it sounds like a great way for everybody to learn. I know from my experience learning about offroading that I unfortunately had to see or do it before I really understood what had been explained regarding safety and fighting gravity. Transparency on these topics might help prevent some future incidences. Seems it's mentioned a comment about privacy or appropriate. What of anyone involved in an incident wrote the report themselves?

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The incidents are reported and discussed on the Marshals forum to avoid any legal and insurance complications.

Batfink, you raise a very good point.

I also fully agree with Iguana about the complications with regards to insurance.

The main point is that sharing the basic info across the board could help somebody else in future, whether it is on an AD4x4 trip or a private weekend excursion with friends. Even as a newbie we can share some valuable info with the rest of the club.

I had a similar experience with a broken recovery point a while back(although it was not as dramatic as the one referred to earlier) and posted my own lessons learnt report afterwards. See: http://www.ad4x4.com/club/viewtopic.php?t=16532
A few of the club members commented and contributed their own experiences as part of the post.

Therefore, in my view, if an individual is comfortable to do so, nothing is stopping them from writing a lessons learnt report on the forum for all to benefit from.

Just bear in mind that it is there for ALL to see, comment and use as they wish.

Thats a good point about legal and insurance complications, I hadn't considered that. But again, keeping the info non-specific can avoid this issue. Also access to the topic can be limited to members only. Anyway, I sense reluctance to adopt something like this so will leave it at that.
Safe driving all.

I fully support Batfink's suggestion.

I work within the airline industry where it is considered good practice to share safety information across the airlines. The names of the airlines are usually removed, however the details of the event are still shared. This enables people to learn from past events, including mistakes made by maintenance staff. It is not a blame culture it is just used to inform and improve safety.

In a similar vain, I think it is important that events within the club are shared in an open forum. Names do not have to be mentioned, but I do think much can be learnt from an open and honest account and the reasons why the event happend. Furthermore I also think it is the responsibility of the club to promote safety, and share such information. The information should not be kept among a select few. I do not think letting people know the potential hazards will scare them away, it will just serve to make them more aware and safety conscious. Ultimately this can be a dangerous sport and "fore warned is fore armed".

If there is a will to adopt such a practice then it can be done with the correct preparation to ensure people's privacy is protected.

Thanks.

unknown wrote:I fully support Batfink's suggestion.

I work within the airline industry where it is considered good practice to share safety information across the airlines. The names of the airlines are usually removed, however the details of the event are still shared. This enables people to learn from past events, including mistakes made by maintenance staff. It is not a blame culture it is just used to inform and improve safety.

In a similar vain, I think it is important that events within the club are shared in an open forum. Names do not have to be mentioned, but I do think much can be learnt from an open and honest account and the reasons why the event happend. Furthermore I also think it is the responsibility of the club to promote safety, and share such information. The information should not be kept among a select few. I do not think letting people know the potential hazards will scare them away, it will just serve to make them more aware and safety conscious. Ultimately this can be a dangerous sport and "fore warned is fore armed".

If there is a will to adopt such a practice then it can be done with the correct preparation to ensure people's privacy is protected.

Thanks.

Thanks Unknown

Like the Airline's Approach and Sure We Will Start sharing ......... and as Batfink said "Its all about awareness and learning from it"

I fully support transparency especially if its up to the individual involved. I was in an incident earlier this year that I believe was documented and reported to the Marshall's and sc, however I would not have minded sharing this experience with others as accidents can happen every easily but also be easily avoided. I never posted about it as I am not sure what our dear Marshall's position is on this.


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There are too many things to learn ... We are all learning and sharing our experience ... And trust me, from our own experience, sharing such information on a public forum on an open website, might lead into disasters.

When you are escelated to higher ranks, you will see how our reporting system is working and you will know what I mean by then.

For now, just listen to your Marshals regarding teh safety tips, these guys really know what they are talking and warning you about

Batfink wrote:Thats a good point about legal and insurance complications, I hadn't considered that. But again, keeping the info non-specific can avoid this issue. Also access to the topic can be limited to members only. Anyway, I sense reluctance to adopt something like this so will leave it at that.
Safe driving all.

100 % true.

Batfink wrote:Thats a good point about legal and insurance complications, I hadn't considered that. But again, keeping the info non-specific can avoid this issue.

Agree on this and the info is already shared in our rules, tips and policies. Yes we do not post each incident, but every here and there, you will find a new rule or a guideline or a safety tip posted. .... Some of the members are sharing their experience as well, so this is a good practice which we all can take, members should feel free to share their experience without being specific.

Batfink wrote:Also access to the topic can be limited to members only

It is limited to Explorer and above

Batfink wrote:Anyway, I sense reluctance to adopt something like this so will leave it at that.
Safe driving all.

Read my first para please