Starting Out..

Anything related to off-road Technical questions and Modifications
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Ajesh
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Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

Hi everybody,

I have been sitting on the fence contemplating whether to jump into this rather captivating world of off roading and feel that this is the year to finally be a part and hope to get your feedback/guidance to push myself into.

I run a city cross-over presently which has no chance in the desert so, the decision for me would start with getting hold of a capable off road worthy second car. I have been a part of some trips with more experienced drivers and realise that I need to have my own car to really develop my skills (so leaving out the renting option).

Based on my limited initial budget and, considering that I still dont know how far I will eventually run with this, seek your advise to narrow down on a beginner's car which could be incrementally upgraded with progress in experience.

I shortlisted based on my budget and reading of general stuff, the below
- Xterra- 2012 and newer with about 100k on odo
- Pajero- SWB 3.8 L 2012 about 100k on odo

Would be great to get your considered opinion on the below for these cars
a) Estimated costs for basis off road kitting (apologies, still reading up so not up to the mark with the lingo/technical stuff yet)
b) Ease of upgradability for future levels (Intermediate and beyond)
c) Any particular 4WD specific inspection that I need to do while buying the car
d) Any mechanic in AD who is recommended for this inspection

I am reading up the old posts in the various threads parallely and your guidance in the meantime will really help

Thanks in advance.

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Starting Out..

Post by bisho »

Welcome Billet to AD4X4 family

I do recommend the xtetrra from the options you have sorted

The off-road recovery kit will cost you around AED 900 without the air compressor

The air compressor cost from AED 350 up to AED 3000 based on your choice it's matter of quality

The xtetrra is good toy in the desert and easy to find parts for upgrade

And for the inspection just ensure that the transfer case and both diff are in good condition

Good luck and welcome to AD4X4 family

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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

bisho wrote:Welcome Billet to AD4X4 family

I do recommend the xtetrra from the options you have sorted

The off-road recovery kit will cost you around AED 900 without the air compressor

The air compressor cost from AED 350 up to AED 3000 based on your choice it's matter of quality

The xtetrra is good toy in the desert and easy to find parts for upgrade

And for the inspection just ensure that the transfer case and both diff are in good condition

Good luck and welcome to AD4X4 family

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Starting Out..

Post by Georges »

Hi Billet. You can also look at a Jeep. But from the 2 options you mention XTerra would be better. However it has to be the 4.0 S model. You can compare on internet the specs.

Good luck.
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

Georges wrote:Hi Billet. You can also look at a Jeep. But from the 2 options you mention XTerra would be better. However it has to be the 4.0 S model. You can compare on internet the specs.

Good luck.
Thank you for the feedback. I could only find TJs or early JKs with very heavy mileage at my budget(dont know much about the other jeep models like Cherokee at the moment) ,so dropped Jeep from my shortlist but will keep an eye out for the Jeep models too.

Xterra seems to be the choice for now. Off to Dubizzle to scout for the cars..
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Starting Out..

Post by Kharadly »

I was in the same boat, decided on a TJ.

Very happy with it so far.

Mine came with 170k, however the inline six cylinders are bullet proof, with examples in the US reaching more than 250k Miles.

The short wheel base & light body were a perfect combination for me starting out.

So don't dismiss cheap clean stock ones.

Mine was offered at 25k, got it for 17k after a bit of negotiations.

It's good so you don't feel guilty when you are starting out and make rookie mistakes.

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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

Kharadly wrote:I was in the same boat, decided on a TJ.

Very happy with it so far.

Mine came with 170k, however the inline six cylinders are bullet proof, with examples in the US reaching more than 250k Miles.

The short wheel base & light body were a perfect combination for me starting out.

So don't dismiss cheap clean stock ones.

Mine was offered at 25k, got it for 17k after a bit of negotiations.

It's good so you don't feel guilty when you are starting out and make rookie mistakes.

Kharadly
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Thanks for the feedback, I started looking for Jeep models as well and did find some early JK/JKUs in the price bracket with about 150km on the odo.

Hope both models are equally good for desert terrain and I really shouldnt be bothered about 2 dr/4 dr :ugeek: .

Planning to take some test drives over the week and will update.
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Kharadly »

Billet wrote:
Kharadly wrote:I was in the same boat, decided on a TJ.

Very happy with it so far.

Mine came with 170k, however the inline six cylinders are bullet proof, with examples in the US reaching more than 250k Miles.

The short wheel base & light body were a perfect combination for me starting out.

So don't dismiss cheap clean stock ones.

Mine was offered at 25k, got it for 17k after a bit of negotiations.

It's good so you don't feel guilty when you are starting out and make rookie mistakes.

Kharadly
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Thanks for the feedback, I started looking for Jeep models as well and did find some early JK/JKUs in the price bracket with about 150km on the odo.

Hope both models are equally good for desert terrain and I really shouldnt be bothered about 2 dr/4 dr :ugeek: .

Planning to take some test drives over the week and will update.
Early Model JKs were the 3.8L

That's why I went with TJ, maybe you can ask owners of those, but if you want a JK, you are better off with penta star 3.6L engines, i.e. 2012 plus, that's why you find a price difference.

They used to call the 3.8 the minivan engines.

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Re: Starting Out..

Post by scotchyl »

Here is a quick summary of the 3 models as 3dr variants
TJ - 200hp - about 1700kg kerb weight
JK 3.8l (up to 2012) - 210 hp - about 2,200 kg kerb weight
JK 3.6 pentaster (2012 +) - 287 hp - about 2,000 kg kerb weight

TJ must be clean and limited mods, or you'll find its been trashed and will cost the same to repair. parts are more difficult to find

JK is the tank of the jeeps, heavier as was made for mass market and was first choice desert toy.

JK Pentaster, newer model, better engine and refinement but more expensive. the New JL being released means prices of these may drop.

On all the above, the more mods the car has the more likely it is to have been taken to desert.

I speak on the above as i have had pleasure of owning all three.

The TJ 2005 was by far the most fun and most reliable. as a manual and without doors, hard top and roof i could chase the FJ's and JK's no issues.
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Bulldozer »

Kharadly wrote:I was in the same boat, decided on a TJ.

Very happy with it so far.

Mine came with 170k, however the inline six cylinders are bullet proof, with examples in the US reaching more than 250k Miles.

The short wheel base & light body were a perfect combination for me starting out.

So don't dismiss cheap clean stock ones.

Mine was offered at 25k, got it for 17k after a bit of negotiations.

It's good so you don't feel guilty when you are starting out and make rookie mistakes.

Kharadly
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i support this option or old JK with a reasonable price, i love the TJ if you can find clean one 2005/2006 are the best of the years, if you wanna really enjoy the off-road not another city tour car, Xterra had a front diff issues untill now cannot be resolved, with bouncing tail due to leaf spring suspension, Pajero is low and limited, you cannot go a bit higher level with it.
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Post by Miner »

My thoughts...

Xterra in high spec and power is a good base, the low spec ones are lacking in diff locks. Have leaf spring rear axles.

Pajero SWB is a capable motor to start with and a good car generally, mine has been on a few Liwa trips and only car not to get stuck (but there were lots of beginners, some experienced guys in jacked FJ cruisers too)... they lack suspension height compared to some of the others but the 3.8 has plenty of power and centre and rear diff locks. I don’t need a hardcore car, I’ve got a KTM enduro bike... I would like to lift mine though. You also need to frig the ASC to fully disable the TC which can cause bogging when you need to just keep it lit. They can be modded.

How tough a terrain would you not tackle in one of these guys? Interested to know...

Jeeps look great, lots of mods and go great until they break... Jap jeeps more bullet proof.


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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

Thank you @kharadly, @scotchyl and @bulldozer for your advice. I have been looking at different options and the decision seems to be down to the below

a) 2006 Jeep TJ 4.0 with 110km mileage-stock
b) 2007 Jeep JK 3.8 with 130km mileage-stock
c) 2010 xterra with 150km mileage.4.0S but not off road edition.Has diff lock but not sure of the gear ratio.

All sellers claim zero or minimal off road usage and the price expectations are similar.

I do plan to take the vehicle for a pre purchase inspection to Ramy/Icon but assuming no major issues, please guide on my order of preference , if I have to finalise please
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

Thank you everyone for the feedback .

I test drove some xterras, 1 pajero and also 1 TJ. The TJ stood out with its roughness and honestly with a german car for a daily driver, the change was welcome.

I eventually bought the TJ from a very knowledgeable jeeper off dubizzle. The 2006 car has 125k on the ODO and was apparently bought as a replacement of his 99 TJ , but he was selling it before it did any desert duty.

Took the car to Ramy for a pre purchase inspection and some leaks were identified (manageable). I also got a more detailed inspection done later in AUH and have chosen to get a bunch of worn and torn small parts replaced.

All in all, the mechanics could confirm that the car has got very minimal off road usage and engine and transmission are good (though I found an old receipt in the car after purchase which shows that the transmission has been re-worked at Dexol and PCM was repaired sometime in 2016). Hope it doesnt come back to haunt me.

I hope to get the car back from garage this week in time for the next ANIT trip.

Cheers
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by FidoDido »

Congratulations. TJ is good choice. Hope to see you soon on the sand.
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Re: Starting Out..

Post by Ajesh »

***Long Post Alert***

I am writing the post to provide an update of my first ever desert outing and the bollywood movie style adventure (atleast for me and my car). These are my own take-aways and hope the other members of the convoy can relate to some of this...

So the car came back from the garage in time to make it to the ANIT trip led by Francis on 21.09.2018 from Al Faqa to Qudra lakes.

Reached on time (thanks to TJs top speed, was not sure if I would)
At the meeting point, Francis showed us through the deflation process and also conducted the briefing with a lot of basis dos and donts.
Radios were set to the common frequency and off we went.

Now to me, both the car and desert were new, so started off gingerly with all kinds of doubts about the car holding up , nudging, and lo and behold, yours truly was the first one to get stuck (Well as Pharaoh pointed out later, I was not stuck but just not using the right kind of accelerator pressure to pass through). Tried and got out in the second try....or maybe the third

We did some amazing cross desert dune navigation with the technicalities gradually becoming more challenging but so was the confidence to go past the challenges. Some self recoveries and a couple of misjudgements over the crest (jeeps belly didnt like them), I was really beginning to test the limits of the car (or so I thought) and was happy to see the car respond to all the challenges.

Fast forward to the final resting stop and the declaration that the destination is 500 m ahead... It was a day well spent and a bit of weariness was on the horizon , little did I know that we werent even at the interval of the movie.

Some more dunes later, while trying to get across a dune (maybe a 45 deg gradient), I heard a loud crack from under the front axle and some weird gear sounds. Reversed, to try again , but the car was stuck with me pushing on the accelerator...

Car stuck was announced but this time it felt different. The car wasnt responding to the attempts as earlier. Some self recovery attempts were done and on closer inspection , it was determined that something under the gearlever had broken due to which the car was stuck in reverse (later determined that the gear shifter cable bush had fallen off its case).

The car was winched out however, since nightfall was upon us, the marshals decided to leave the car there and attempt recovery once the convoy reaches the destination. Car's location was stored on GPS and we proceeded in Francis's car. Another recovery and pop-out later, the convoy reached the destination and disbanded.

At the destination point, had a fleeting discussion of the problem with another group from Ad4x4 who were having their food (sorry, didnt say hellos to everyone due to the above situation) and Omar from the group explained rather convincingly that it could just be the gear shifter cable being out of place and that it could be fixed back rather easily with a wire or a tape. He explained the procedure but honestly, wasnt familiar with the car enough to understand it through and I am sure he would have realised so, looking at my face.

A status check was done and after some discussions, the marshal advised that it may not be a good idea to recover the car during the night and that we could try to plan it the next day (Saturday). I was fine with it as there was no point in taking on unnecessary risks.

Other options were evaluated, one of which was to get in the touch with UAE Rescue, a team of volunteers who help out getting cars out of similar situations.

Not expecting much, just called on the number on their Instagram page and told them the issue. The person was quite receptive and immediately asked to share the location of the car, details of the problem and contact number on whatsapp. As I understand, they have their own Telegram/Whatsapp pages where they send the details and call upon the volunteers closest to the location to respond.

As luck would have it , it turned out that the call came to Karam from our group itself. A lot of animated Arabic discussions later between the members (gladly), the recovery team was formed with Francis, Omar and myself going to the car to attempt a shifter cable fix with Karam on standby to come out in case the recovery team faced any issues.

The car was spotted and with some ingenous thinking and duct tape (yay, the only tool in my kit alongwith charging cable), magical Omar fixed the cable and got the car to start.

Considering everything, Omar got behind the wheels and followed Francis back out in the car.

Well , it was more like Omar putting the gear in 4L and belting the hell out of the car on the way back . Was astonished that this is the same car that I was scared will break down if pushed harder. He showed the capability of the car in that little drive and I definitely got back a lot of confidence after that mishap.

Came back to the destination point at Qudra, got the log book with the first sign off , said the byes and left to inflate the tyres at the Cycle Shop in Last Exit Qudra..

The cycle shop is no longer agreeing to fill air in the car tyres due to some policy change. Luckily found another jeeper there who lent his compressor for us to fill the air, but since the car was idling all the time that the air was being filled, the temporary shifter cable fix came off. But now I was aware of exactly how to fix it , thanks to Omar's practical training under the car so was able to fix it enough for the car to start and off we went.

Long story short, the heroes of the day were definitely the cool as cucumber Marshals (@Francis and @Pharaoh), Magic @Omar Farouk, @Karam Al janabi and the great spirit that the club has to help each other out. I need to point out that all this action was at the end of the trip when everyone was visibly tired but still chose to help out a new member .

Thanks guys!
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