Roll bar fabrication

BAHA · Post by **BAHA** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:45 pm

With safety in mind, I want to have a roll bar done on the truck, the garage I know is booked for at least 3 months waiting list, if anyone can refer a garage that can do the job would be a great help.

And, question for offroad accessory experts about the ready made bed roll bar ( Go Rhino ) http://www.gorhino.com/Bed-Accessories , incase no fabrication shop found, can I consider them as an option? Since they are fitted I the bed floor, I assume good support but couldn't find specs on the tube thickness ( for safety bar I think should be like 4mm) and if they are just for looks, I don't need em.

Thanks.

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iguana · Post by **iguana** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:25 pm

The only place that I can trust for roll bar is black scorpion in Mussafah

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BAHA · Post by **BAHA** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:00 pm

iguana wrote:The only place that I can trust for roll bar is black scorpion in Mussafah

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Me too! BUT. Do they do for a average joe such as myself?

I remember few years back I asked them for my LC they declined "only to companies" was the answer I recall.
Maybe with your wasta arbab

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scotchyl · Post by **scotchyl** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:23 pm

I know ramy do a roll cage for the JK but maybe they have some other options aswell.

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khaiwi · Post by **khaiwi** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:36 pm

BAHA wrote:
iguana wrote:The only place that I can trust for roll bar is black scorpion in Mussafah

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Me too! BUT. Do they do for a average joe such as myself?
I remember few years back I asked them for my LC they declined "only to companies" was the answer I recall.
Maybe with your wasta arbab

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Yes Black Scorpion accept business from individuals and they have already rollbars measurement for Toyota LC and Prado which can be done within a couple of days if not mistaken.

I went recently with Abul3bed asking for Patrol Hardtop, they were ready to accept indivual orders but since they didnt have measurements for patrol they requested a week's time.

Ramy have ready made rollcage for JK and JKU while Mebar can fabricate FIAA standard rollbar for your 4x4 if you are willing to spend arm and leg.

This is a very important safety measure where I think its a great investment and "money well spent".

Hope I was able to help.

BAHA · Post by **BAHA** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:16 pm

Thank you all.
Will look into these options hoping to find good solution.

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omar_kid77 · Post by **omar_kid77** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:21 am

Baha check with Nabil Al Isar workshop he did my rally car roll bar which is approved by FIA.

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BAHA · Post by **BAHA** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:54 pm

omar_kid77 wrote:Baha check with Nabil Al Isar workshop he did my rally car roll bar which is approved by FIA.

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Nabil is really good. Unfortunately, he is the one fully booked. He did refer me to another similar but in um alquain , too far but considered as last option.

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Zeebzog · Post by **Zeebzog** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:01 pm

Not trying to hijack the thread but would appreciate people's view:

I looked at getting a roll cage a while ago for a FJ Cruiser but it looks like a lot of work. My friend rolled his FJ, purely his fault, he was very inexperienced and did the wrong thing in the desert, rolled 3 times, fortunately he walked away without a scratch.

I then found a piece of research from BHP Billiton effectively demonstrating that fitting an aftermarket roll cage did not improve protection in most scenarios but creates additional risk due to the people in the car potentially hitting the roll cage. You also need to look at changing seat belts etc.

There have been comments that FJs are more prone to roll over than Jeeps, but when you look for proof you actually find that NHTSA testing in the US shows that for stock cars the FJ is actually fractionally less likely to roll over (both vehicles in the test rolled over 25%-28% of the time)...and who knows what happens after we have all modified them differently.

Now I appreciate that there is a lot of experience on the forum and would be very grateful for an informed view.

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scotchyl · Post by **scotchyl** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:47 pm

It's down to the centre of gravity. The fj is more top heavy than say the jeep, thus if you lift but don't add wheel spacers you raise centre of gravity which mean car has more potential to roll. On my jk I put 2.5 inch lift and no spacers. When side cresting I could feel car lift up and shift a lot. Put spacers and now while centre of gravity is higher, the base is wider thus compensating for it. Wider tyres is another option as spacers can increase chance of bending axle or housings as pressure is shifted.

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Kalahari · Post by **Kalahari** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:23 pm

When I lifted the jeep Marwan from Ramy STRONGLY advised that I take spacers and I did. As a result, the car felt like it did when it was stock in terms of stability and it was well within limits. At the same time, changed tyre said to 285 which also assisted.

Professional roll cage is used by drivers wearing helmets, therefore your point on hitting the roll cage could well be true. In addition, the professional seat belt is at 4 or even 5 way secured which also stops you hitting the cage.

If anyone does fit a cage, it would be best to install the padding that is designed to fit the bars.

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BAHA · Post by **BAHA** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:52 am

First, we have to appreciate that it is a high impact residual risk with high probability considering our choice of sport

Second, lifts (as a desired - not really a must-) mod increase the probability. we lean towards spacers, tires etc.. (80% as completing the look - also desired unless tires are application specific i.e. not using Mud rated for sand drive

- and 20% to mitigate the probability by a very marginal rate; my personal opinion " they may increase the risk by introducing component failure i.e. ball joint & bearing that may lead to serious damage if happened while at speed or turn .... well,, imagine,,,, , in this context, damage to the vehicle i.e. axle etc. in neglected"

Third, back to the actual risk, priority is to reduce severity and only a proper roll cage ( upon God's mercy ofcourse) can do the job,

Fourth, the cage may introduce new risk? yes, but so as seat belts, airbags etc.. and even without the cage, passenger may still hit the sides. an acceptable risk and mitigated severity by paddings , a bonus probability mitigation with 4 or 5 point belt.

finally, forget all the above and listen to the big bosses what they comment above, iguana and chief said it is good means it is good :kneel:

oh, and about the FJ, my advice it is tooooooo risky piece of a jumpy mouse with fragile body specially the roof and I would think twice before driving one without a cage ( I m always shocked how roof of Japanese cars collapse.....scary)

Ancient Mariner · Post by **Ancient Mariner** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:59 am

scotchyl wrote:It's down to the centre of gravity. The fj is more top heavy than say the jeep, thus if you lift but don't add wheel spacers you raise centre of gravity which mean car has more potential to roll. On my jk I put 2.5 inch lift and no spacers. When side cresting I could feel car lift up and shift a lot. Put spacers and now while centre of gravity is higher, the base is wider thus compensating for it. Wider tyres is another option as spacers can increase chance of bending axle or housings as pressure is shifted.

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Interested to know what spacers/size you fitted. I have 2.5 inch lift and 285/70/17 tyres on my JKU and fitted mainly to improve rock crawling ability. I have had 2 incidents (making 3 point turn on steep gravel road and steep off camber bend on loose rocks) where sideslip has been undesirable consequence and once felt alarmingly close to rolling when it was a loooooooong way down. I'm getting my front axle strengthened next week and considering adaptor/spacers at same time. Side slip resistance would be better resisted by wider tyres but roll resistance will be a combination of the point the centre of gravity acts through the contact patch so tyres of spacers will not make a significant difference (?) Doing the maths would get even more complicated when considering sand is essentially a fluid surface so I reckon personal experience shared is probably best route to assisting decision making. I have not even reached "side cresting" level yet but would like to optimise my rig!

Martin

Zeebzog · Post by **Zeebzog** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:26 am

Never had a jeep. For an FJ I have around a 2inch lift, mainly leveling the vehicle and removing the forward lean of the car, with 30mm spaces all round on 285/70/17 tires. Never felt like the car was going to roll over to date...hopefully never will.

If you want the formulas and process to calculate CG I can provide but suspension does mean that your CG changes continuously.

I do agree that shared experience is important. There are so many factors that impact stability: static CG, suspension, tires, sway bars, fuel carried, passengers etc. that simply using some maths will not give you the full picture.

Lee.

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omar_kid77 · Post by **omar_kid77** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:22 pm

BAHA wrote:
omar_kid77 wrote:Baha check with Nabil Al Isar workshop he did my rally car roll bar which is approved by FIA.

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Nabil is really good. Unfortunately, he is the one fully booked. He did refer me to another similar but in um alquain , too far but considered as last option.

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I highly recommend to stick with them I had the experience to roll over in my rally car twice and roll bar with no damages till date el Hamdelah + approved by the authorities and FIA.

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