Steering Wobble in FJ - Shakedown on the shakes!

Escape · Post by **Escape** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:32 am

I have a 2015 FJ Xtreme. It has got Arctic Trucks rims and BFG tyres and has done nearly 11,000km.

When I first bought it, the steering was very smooth. After the first desert trip, I noticed a bit of steering wobble occurring between 80 - 110kph. I took it back to Arctic Trucks (who did the Xtreme mods) where they did an alignment and balance and the wobble was gone.

The next time I went out in the desert, the wobble came back. I thought that it may have been a result of a few hard hits and I was actually knocking out the steering alignment.

I took it to Tyre Power in Jebel Ali (really good by the way) and asked them to do a balance and alignment. They tried once and when I picked the car up, the wobble was still there. They tried again…still there. Eventually, the guy said that they didn’t know what to do, but he was very good about it and did not charge me anything.

I then asked Al Futtaim to fix the wobble under warranty. I don’t have to tell you what their response was. In the end, I agreed to pay, but only if it came back perfect. Al Futtaim sent it back to Artic Trucks for an alignment and a balance because apparently they can’t do what is required in their SZR workshop. When it came back, it was in fact perfect again, but they said it did not need an alignment, just the balance. Happy days.

I then went out into the desert and the wobble is back worse than ever.

I called Artic Trucks to see if they know what is going on. What they suggest may be happening is that the rims are spinning inside the tyre and taking the wheel out of balance. I am taking it back to Arctic Trucks to get it fixed again (hopefully they can) and I am then going to mark the rims and the tyre to see if there is any rotation. I am not expecting any on the highway, but when I deflate (sometimes as low as 7psi, but usually 9 or 10) I want to see what happens.

For all you FJ drivers out there, I have heard that steering wobble is an issue. I have searched other forums and the reports are mixed. Some say all FJ’s have it and that it is a design issue, some say that a lift fixes it, some say there is an issue with the steering column, some say that the tyres are not round. Having tyres that are not round could be a big contributing factor as you can perfectly balance an object that is not round, but when you drive on it, you will get shakes. Maybe that is why Tyre Power couldn’t fix it, but does not explain why Artic Trucks could.

If anybody has any insight or information on what is causing wobbles, how they have fixed it, or any issues to look for, that would be really great.

I will report back on my tyre/rim alignment test after the next trip. To gather a bit more info, can I suggest that other drivers might like to put a mark on their tyre and rim to see if it stays aligned after a trip. The more data the better!

Looking forward to working this one out!

Cheers, Al

Xof · Post by **Xof** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:49 am

good luck.

Death wooble is usually related to worn steering and suspension parts, which is aggravated with lift kit... and this does not help, because you still have a lot to check!

in case you cannot fix it, check for dynamic balancing, either with pebbles in the wheel http://www.innovativebalancing.com/index.php , or with a system fixed on your axle http://airmontdistributing.com/pro/inde ... Itemid=110

Escape · Post by **Escape** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:18 pm

Hi Xof,

Thanks for the input. I agree that worn out steering and suspension parts certainly could cause a wobble, but the wobble occurred after the first desert drive when the car had only done about 1500km (1300km of that was on road with no issues) and was fixed by Arctic Trucks, only to reoccur after deflating again.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the FJ has done enough km for any steering or suspension parts to have worn out. I think the wobble is more likely to be a balance issue with the tyres (at least that is what I am hoping).

A bit more investigation and testing is needed I think!

Cheers, Al

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:14 pm

Good post. Thank you.
I have 17" stock rims, a fox stage 1 lift, and geolanders and I don t have this issue unless i have sand or water inside my tires

Your rim to tire fit could indeed be the issue. Another cause could be your BFG tires which might be too heavy.

You could ask Hatjy at Arctic Trucks to lend you stock rims and tires for you to try and see how they perform on your car?

Bu Shahid · Post by **Bu Shahid** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:36 pm

well, I do not think it is a mater of worn out...
I have my FJ for two years now with around 58 k as of now (stock with no lift kit)
initially I had the stock tires (Dunlop AT22) up to 40 K with almost one offroad trip each week and had no issue in terms of wobbling.
now I fitted the cooper AT/3 and recently started to have this issue and balancing does not help

I believe it is all about the type/brand of tire itself, the BFG and the At/3 are heavier, stiffer and harder than the AT22 and i think this problem will not be solved without changing the tires, I might be wrong but if you can try with stock tire (temp swap with someone) and you will find it just normal.

aadil imtiaz · Post by **aadil imtiaz** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:27 pm

Considering that one balancing shop has fixed the wobbling every time they worked on your car, means it is related only to the tyres and rims, and not with any other part of the suspension.

Also keeping in view that after every good balancing the wobbling only restarted after your dip in the sand, it is most likely that the rim/s spin/s inside the tyre/s. Wider tyres, grippier tyres, extremely low pressure, hard acceleration, all of these are a factor to it. I suggest that you observe this in your next trip/s. If you go in the desert perfectly balanced and come out wobbly, with the rims in the same place, we'll have another session of brain storming:).

Regs,

Aadil.

Escape · Post by **Escape** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:32 am

I took the FJ to Arctic Trucks and after a wheel balance and alignment (very little alignment adjustment needed) it is now perfect. In order to monitor the situation, I drew a line on the tyre going up to the rim. If those lines are no longer straight, then the tyre is slipping. Now for the disappointing part. I dropped my daughter at school and drove to work, maybe 40km, and I have noticed on the left rear, there has already been about 3mm of slippage. I also made a point of driving very cautiously without hard braking or acceleration and the tyre is fully inflated. So next question: how do I stop tyres slipping on rims (now that I am pretty sure of the cause of the shake)? Any thoughts?

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Snappy · Post by **Snappy** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:00 am

I have a friend who has an Arctic truck modified toyota landcruiser. He had a pop out in the dunes and after 3 hours of hard work and effort we were not able to get the tyre back on the rim. We concluded that the tyre is slightly larger than the rim hence the inability to reseat and seal the tyre to the rim. This may also be the issue here. (We fixed the popout by taking the tyre and rim to the tyre shop in Sweihan and then bringing it back to the car!)

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Xof · Post by **Xof** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:25 am

then duct tape to make sure the rims and the tires stick together.

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:32 am

Yours are factory rims and tires ? Done by al futtaim in contract with Arctic trucks... Correct?
Then ask al futtaim to fix issue under warranty?

Escape · Post by **Escape** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:18 pm

Snappy, you may well be right.

If the tyre is slightly too large, or the rim slightly too small, then it is likely that I will never get a good seal.

Not really sure if that can be fixed though.

I have read that putting polyurethane glue on the rims, applying abrasive paint, or "texturing" (effectively rough sand blasting the contact area of the rims) are all options. There is of course the option of replacing the rims with a bead-lock version, although I have heard that these can be a bit tricky to balance (though not exactly sure why).

This article was also quite interesting: http://www.koiautoparts.com/professiona ... ippage.pdf

Anyway, I will see how they go and try to come up with a solution. I would be interested to see if anyone else is experiencing the same issues.

I have also attached a photo (please excuse the wobbly lines - it was dark).

Cheers, Al

Escape · Post by **Escape** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:51 am

Thanks Denise, I will have a chat to Al Futtaim and see how we go. I won't hold my breath!

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Dune_Phantom · Post by **Dune_Phantom** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:02 am

Check FJ cruiser forum. I had the wobble on my car. The issue is due to Tyres for sure. Use Michelin Tyres. However, I had a complaint with Futtaim for a long time regarding alloy rims they provide as these are from different factories and not all have the same strength. Try changing rims with another friend who is not having this issue.

Hani AMJ · Post by **Hani AMJ** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:03 am

Very common problem for people who like driving with less than 10psi. If You say you have experienced this on the road with fully inflated tires then something else is wrong. Perhaps when the tires got fitted to the rim a petrolume based lubricant was applied on the rim instead of water based!!

I had this problem in 2008 when I first got my 17" with 33" tires. I had to wheel balance almost every trip. Annoying I know. I then came to a conclusion that the tires are spinning on the rim as you did. Changing the rims was not an option as I just have payed 4000 AED for my rims and I didn't want to spend more money on beadlocks.

After some research I decided to try dynamic balancing using BB pallets. I used 480 grams in each tire and my problem was solved. I never wheel balanced my tires ever since. The downside is you need to accelerate smoothly for this concept to work, fast acceleration will cause wobble.

If you would like to try this then you have to check the amount of BB pallets for your tire size. Just look it up on google. Hope this helps.

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Rahman · Post by **Rahman** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:02 pm

Hi Escapee

i would really be interested in knowing what happened with the wobble issue. did you solve it?