Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by SSS »

Ahmedhammad wrote:Three engines would add another discount percentage, true? :mrgreen:
Can join you if you plan to go right after Xof's trip. :)
looool ... of course guys ...
I hope I find the place again :lol:

... and I suggest : do your home work ... means : if you want a price you need to know which stroker recipe you want to follow... more or less more or less expensive parts :lol: ... and the labour is slightly different if you build up a junker block or if you open up your own engine ... head work needed? (porting, valve job?) , block/head milling?, new CAM?, new lifters?, new pushrods?, new spings? new valves? bla bla bla :mrgreen:
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by ossme »

SSS wrote:
Ahmedhammad wrote:Three engines would add another discount percentage, true? :mrgreen:
Can join you if you plan to go right after Xof's trip. :)
looool ... of course guys ...
I hope I find the place again :lol:

... and I suggest : do your home work ... means : if you want a price you need to know which stroker recipe you want to follow... more or less more or less expensive parts :lol: ... and the labour is slightly different if you build up a junker block or if you open up your own engine ... head work needed? (porting, valve job?) , block/head milling?, new CAM?, new lifters?, new pushrods?, new spings? new valves? bla bla bla :mrgreen:
You know that feeling ... when you and your friend go to a restaurant. :amigo: The waiter gives you a menu but you don't know what to choose. There are too many options and you are afraid that you will pick the wrong one. :? Your friend chooses something and immediately say "I will have some of that was well" ! :ugeek:

Well, that is EXACTLY what we are planning to do !! :mrgreen:
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by DinoStroker »

If you build up your existing 4.0L engine into a modified "poor man's" 4.6L stroker as featured in my site, the total cost of parts, machine shop work, and labour will come to about 9000 AED and that's the cheapest stroker build possible (now you know why I called it a "poor man's"). My own engine is the original poor man's version.
The only non-stock parts that are used in the build are the 258 crankshaft (there's an ebay seller in Turkey so that saves a lot in shipping cost), Keith Black ICON IC944 pistons, ARP 112-6001 connecting rod bolts, Accel 24lb/hr injectors, EV1 to EV6 injector harness adapters, and JET 180* thermostat (all available at Summit Racing). The other parts that you'd need to complete the rebuild can be bought locally (main/rod/cam bearings, oil pump, upper/lower gasket sets, crankshaft pulley, freeze plugs, and valve lifters).
The miminum amount of machine shop work required will be to bore/hone the cylinders, press in new cam bearings, grind away the flat balance pads on the 4.0L connecting rod small ends, press the new pistons onto the connecting rods, check the cylinder head for flatness (mill if necessary), and lap the valves/valve seats with grinding paste.
The whole job beginning with removing the old engine from the Jeep to having it rebuilt into a stroker and running again should take less than a week if all goes well. That said, you have to know the pitfalls and it's important that the garage mechanics are focussed so that you don't run into problems.

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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by Xof »

as already discussed, Can the old engine of Frankenstein be installed into a TJ after stroked? i need to sell it...
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

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DinoStroker wrote:If you build up your existing 4.0L engine into a modified "poor man's" 4.6L stroker as featured in my site, the total cost of parts, machine shop work, and labour will come to about 9000 AED and that's the cheapest stroker build possible (now you know why I called it a "poor man's"). My own engine is the original poor man's version.
The only non-stock parts that are used in the build are the 258 crankshaft (there's an ebay seller in Turkey so that saves a lot in shipping cost), Keith Black ICON IC944 pistons, ARP 112-6001 connecting rod bolts, Accel 24lb/hr injectors, EV1 to EV6 injector harness adapters, and JET 180* thermostat (all available at Summit Racing). The other parts that you'd need to complete the rebuild can be bought locally (main/rod/cam bearings, oil pump, upper/lower gasket sets, crankshaft pulley, freeze plugs, and valve lifters).
The miminum amount of machine shop work required will be to bore/hone the cylinders, press in new cam bearings, grind away the flat balance pads on the 4.0L connecting rod small ends, press the new pistons onto the connecting rods, check the cylinder head for flatness (mill if necessary), and lap the valves/valve seats with grinding paste.
The whole job beginning with removing the old engine from the Jeep to having it rebuilt into a stroker and running again should take less than a week if all goes well. That said, you have to know the pitfalls and it's important that the garage mechanics are focussed so that you don't run into problems.
Thank You Dino!

The "modified" poor man's is exactly what I picked ... I got my 4 CW crank from Turkey together with Tobias' already :mrgreen:
(since then standing "storage") ... my 2006 engine has only 60k kms on the clock (actually stroking is a bit decadent) so cam/lifters/rockers/springs/valves supposed to be in good shape. I have already a 62mm TB (from my Trail Jammer kit) ...
I could get KB944-20 over with brand new forged I beam rods balanced and pressed in for USD 730 from ebay. (505 seller)
I still need the crank spacer for the harmonic balancer ... long snout here.
The gaskets, and crank main and rod bearings (why cam bearings as well???) I can get here, right.
But why do I need a new oil pump?
Why do I need new freeze plugs? (extensive block cleaning even for the 60k kms?)
Why do I need a new crankshaft pulley? (The old one does not fit?)
Why do I need to touch the valves?
Why do I need new valve lifters? (existing stock cam! already broken in with exactly the lifters I have.)
Why EV1 to EV6 adapters? (505 has 24 lb/hr injectors with EV6 already for later engines ... and the crank spacer as well :P )
and regarding the injectors : Accel injectors are rated for 49psi fuel pressure ... the 06'er TJ fuel pumps run on around 58, no?
(You suggested some Chevy LS1 injectors on jeepstroker ... I have not found them yet, neither at summit nor at jegs ... part #?)
I think the work is even limited to disassembly, boring the cylinders only and to assembly.
As a precaution I would make sure my T-stat housing is not restricted and I would for sure buy a new stock mopar(!) water pump.
I MIGHT port my cylinder head ... if it is not causing too much work and 7P manages to reassemble the right rockers,springs/valves into the right position (already broken in, remember?) (Same applies for the lifters and pushrods ... they have to go back into the same positions)

My only ONE BIG concern remains : My 42RLE auto tranny POS will have to handle around 250hp and 310lb.ft torque(!!!) and has to stay cool and the torque converter healthy :? ( I have ordered a Derale 13960 ... I hope it will be enough!)

Your comments/tips/hints are HIGHLY APPRECIATED ;) Thank You!
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by SSS »

Xof wrote:as already discussed, Can the old engine of Frankenstein be installed into a TJ after stroked? i need to sell it...
Yes it can be reused! But on newer TJs (2002 and up) it will cause some work ... and 2005/2006 TJs even more hassle (completely different OPDA just as an example).
But on 1997-2001 TJs it should be fine! (plug and play) (ossme !!! here comes your engine! :lol: )

One thing remains : Tobias engine was running with a aw4 auto ... so the mating to a manual tranny e.g. needs some attention: crank pilot pilot bearing? flywheel?
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by DinoStroker »

SSS wrote:But why do I need a new oil pump?
Why do I need new freeze plugs? (extensive block cleaning even for the 60k kms?)
Why do I need a new crankshaft pulley? (The old one does not fit?)
Why do I need to touch the valves?
Why do I need new valve lifters? (existing stock cam! already broken in with exactly the lifters I have.)

You probably don't need any of that stuff with only 60k km on your engine. Just make sure that the old lifters go in EXACTLY the same lifter bores that they came from if you're going to reuse them.

Why EV1 to EV6 adapters? (505 has 24 lb/hr injectors with EV6 already for later engines ... and the crank spacer as well :P )
and regarding the injectors : Accel injectors are rated for 49psi fuel pressure ... the 06'er TJ fuel pumps run on around 58, no?

Since yours is a 2006 model and, as you rightly point out, operates with a 58psi fuel pressure, you could use these 24lb injectors from 505 Performance http://www.shop.505performance.com/prod ... egoryId=32

I MIGHT port my cylinder head ... My only ONE BIG concern remains : My 42RLE auto tranny POS will have to handle around 250hp and 310lb.ft torque(!!!) and has to stay cool and the torque converter healthy :? ( I have ordered a Derale 13960 ... I hope it will be enough!)

Porting the head would be a good idea if you have the time and the tools. Otherwise expect about 20hp less if you leave the head unported. The tranny will be fine as long as you add an auxiliary tranny fluid cooler with an electric fan, especially for offroading.

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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by SSS »

Thanks a lot Dino!

Now I have to have the guts to do it :mrgreen:

(still there is the vortec 5.3 (LM7, L33) option which still drives me crazy ... Novak has mailed me ... they will have BOLT ON engine mounts ready by next week ... a modern low mileage vortec 5.3 with 4L60E tranny and pcm, wiring harness goes for USD 2500 at ebay ... plus rad / fan ... plus block hugger headers ... plus exhaust ... plus new driveshafts? ... and there is a easy way to keep my stock gauges if I run my stock pcm in parallel just for them .... GRAAAAAH ... choices, choices ... but this one will be like AED 18k total minus what I can get for my stock drivetrain in good working order )
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by heinz »

Can i ask where you had the louvers fixed? or did you fix them yourself?

Managed to get some hood louvers for my XJ, but need a good shop that will fix them :mrgreen:
Same as these;
Image

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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by ossme »

SSS wrote:
Xof wrote:as already discussed, Can the old engine of Frankenstein be installed into a TJ after stroked? i need to sell it...
But on 1997-2001 TJs it should be fine! (plug and play) (ossme !!! here comes your engine! :lol: )
I'm still on the edge of either getting a stroker or a hemi swap. I cannot decide yet! :?

I think I will make my mind once I (we) visit 7 performance ! :mrgreen:
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

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heinz wrote:Can i ask where you had the louvers fixed? or did you fix them yourself?

Managed to get some hood louvers for my XJ, but need a good shop that will fix them :mrgreen:
Same as these;
Image
I got the louvers fixed under the sunshade of our office villa in a 3.5 hours job of a saturday afternoon. (I did it myself :mrgreen: )
Method : position the louvers nicely taking the underhood sructural reinforcements into account ... then lots of masking tapes and some markings ... 3" hole saw insert for my power drill ... under each louver I have four big 3" holes in the hood now. Then I drilled several 4mm holes using the louvers as templates. Then with a high quality pop rivet gun (~100 AED at RIA hardaware, Najda street) and lots of 4mm rivets all fixed :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
(you could use machine screws as well)
(the ideal diameter(s) of the hole saw insert(s) is of course highly dependent on YOUR louvers !)
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

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SCORPIO wrote:Nice choice...

by tthe way. did you name your car ??????
the new NAME of my TJ: V8wannabe :twisted:
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

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SSS wrote:
SCORPIO wrote:Nice choice...

by tthe way. did you name your car ??????
the new NAME of my TJ: V8wannabe :twisted:
I would of named it the "Geek Rocket" ! :mrgreen:
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by DinoStroker »

ossme wrote:I'm still on the edge of either getting a stroker or a hemi swap. I cannot decide yet!
V8 swaps are cool and either a Hemi or a Chevy LS series would be great, but neither is a simple bolt-in and go affair so you'd need to plan a lot of downtime (and a lot more money than a stroker build) to get it done right. It's the smaller details that end up biting you on the arse and costing you more time and money.
A stroker build won't yield the same HP/TQ as a V8 but it's a job that you can do over the course of 4-5 days between weekends after you've gathered all of the parts you need, and it's basically plugn'play. You could divide the work as:

Day 1 (Sunday): Engine removal and teardown
Day 2 (Monday): Machine shop work on block and head
Day 3 (Tuesday): Engine reassembly
Day 4 (Wednesday): Engine reinstallation, initial start-up and checks
Day 5 (Thursday): Road test, final checks and, if necessary, troubleshoot problems

Then you can enjoy the power of your new stroker over the weekend.
1992 Jeep Cherokee - 4.6L Stroker - 5MT
200rwhp 258rwtq (246hp 311lbft at crank)
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Re: Beat the Heat Soak Part 1 : (Louvers)

Post by SSS »

DinoStroker wrote:
ossme wrote:I'm still on the edge of either getting a stroker or a hemi swap. I cannot decide yet!
V8 swaps are cool and either a Hemi or a Chevy LS series would be great, but neither is a simple bolt-in and go affair so you'd need to plan a lot of downtime (and a lot more money than a stroker build) to get it done right. It's the smaller details that end up biting you on the arse and costing you more time and money.
A stroker build won't yield the same HP/TQ as a V8 but it's a job that you can do over the course of 4-5 days between weekends after you've gathered all of the parts you need, and it's basically plugn'play. You could divide the work as:

Day 1 (Sunday): Engine removal and teardown
Day 2 (Monday): Machine shop work on block and head
Day 3 (Tuesday): Engine reassembly
Day 4 (Wednesday): Engine reinstallation, initial start-up and checks
Day 5 (Thursday): Road test, final checks and, if necessary, troubleshoot problems

Then you can enjoy the power of your new stroker over the weekend.
You are completely right regarding the costs and the painful details ... exhaust headers and routing ... wiring and gauges ... driveshaft lengths ... etc etc ... (the engine mounts are the smallest problem) but it looks like either V8/tranny combo swap or NO FURTHER power mods:
After I saw the raw torque the 4.7 Frankenmonster was putting on the tranny ... I got scared ... after reaching 3000rpm it never lugs down ... the tires keep spinning :? ... my 42RLE heats up a little in 4hi even with aux tranny cooler in line with the built in rad cooler (I have a tranny temp gauge) ... in 4Lo it gets back down to normal :)
AND 4HI is what I will be using with mo paua :twisted:

So my conclusion : just a more powerful engine without (auto ... yuck) tranny swap is calling for trouble ... and a stroker plus tranny swap means stroker plus manual ... and my wife is the DD (main user of the TJ) and not allowed/unwilling to drive a manual :(
Costwise adding the tranny swap would come close to a V8-tranny combo :(

Now looking for a vortec 5.3(!) out of a silverado/sierra/tahoe plus 4L60E plus pcm and wiring harness ... and I have not been to 7P yet :|

BTW: I have done enough mods where I was "phasing out". Looking back I would have done my e.g. lift completely differently to run 33" tires ... :
NO suspension lift (max 1" H&R coils) ... AEV/Nth tummy tuck ... AEV highline fender/body kit (street legal!) ... king shocks for 0-2" lift :==>
LCOG to run 33" tires and same clearance under belly (more or less) and diffs I have now! :twisted:
But I wanted the lift asap :evil: at that time ... so now I have 2" OME HD lift plus 1.25 BL to run 33". :cry:
It's not bad at all ... but I could have done MUCH better ... and as Laurie (Oman Jeep) uses to say:
"Pay for doing it right and cry once ... or cheap out and cry often" :mrgreen:
Last edited by SSS on Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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